*** Logfile started
*** on Wed Mar 16 05:29:14 2005

[05:29:14] Join	You have joined channel #debian-dpl-moderator. (hmlf@dsl-202-173-153-21.vic.westnet.com.au)
[05:29:14] Topic	The channel topic is "This is the moderation channel for the 2005 Debian DPL debate. Only moderators may participate here.".
[05:29:14] Topic	Topic was set by madduck__ on 16/03/05 01:00:27.
[05:29:14] Names	End of NAMES list.
[05:29:15] Mode	Channel modes: no messages from outside
[05:29:15] Created	This channel was created on 15/03/05 16:28:31.
[05:29:44] <helen>	morning
[05:32:30] <madduck__>	morning
[05:32:35] Mode	madduck__ gives channel operator privileges to you.
[05:32:39] 	 * madduck__ yawns
[05:32:44] <helen>	yeah
[05:32:49] 	 * helen passes madduck coffee
[05:32:55] <madduck__>	:)
[05:32:59] <madduck__>	i'll go and get some...
[05:33:09] <helen>	madduck: do I need to voice myself on -debate?  I've forgotten how it works.
[05:36:07] <madduck__>	i think you can just speak as op.
[05:36:15] <madduck__>	why don't you try the "testing 1 2 3" thing. :)
[05:36:43] <helen>	heh - because it seems too silly.  
[05:36:44] <helen>	ok
[05:37:35] Join	Rhonda has joined this channel. (~alfie@rhonda.user)
[05:37:40] <helen>	hi Rhonda 
[05:37:43] Mode	madduck__ gives channel operator privileges to Rhonda.
[05:37:44] <helen>	and hi helix too :)
[05:37:48] <Rhonda>	Ah, and it _was_ -moderator  :)
[05:37:51] <helen>	have we heard from slef, out of interest?
[05:38:00] <madduck__>	nope. screw him.
[05:38:03] <helix>	hi hi
[05:38:03] <helen>	Rhonda: yeah, I think I was missing an email about it, or something.  Or I'm stupid.  
[05:38:07] <madduck__>	his last email to me was so arrogant...
[05:38:12] <helen>	madduck__: ok, do we want to ask dondelelcaro then?
[05:38:13] <helix>	madduck__: :(
[05:38:17] <Rhonda>	helen: No, you aren't. Me is.
[05:38:17] <helix>	yeah, don!
[05:38:19] <helen>	yeah, he was offensive, I entirely agree.  
[05:38:21] 	 * helix claps excitedly
[05:38:26] <helix>	what did he say?
[05:38:50] <Rhonda>	Hi, everyone, btw.
[05:38:54] <helen>	helix: he was whinging about the time in the uk and saying that he wouldn't remember his password for gort
[05:39:07] <helix>	poor slef
[05:39:10] <helen>	madduck handled him beautifully and politely, imho.  
[05:39:13] <helix>	my heart bleeds!
[05:39:15] <helix>	yay madduck
[05:39:50] <madduck__>	anything to stop your heart from bleeding. ;^>
[05:39:55] <helix>	I guess I should join the debate channel huh
[05:40:02] <helix>	#debian-dpl-debate, right? :)
[05:40:05] <madduck__>	yes
[05:40:20] <helix>	wait, how many channels are there?
[05:40:23] <helix>	aj is saying -replies?!
[05:40:33] <helix>	oh, just for the candidates
[05:41:01] <madduck__>	helix: we can ask dondelelcaro, but we won't really need him... or?
[05:41:06] <madduck__>	Rhonda, helix: what do you say?
[05:41:10] <helix>	ask him
[05:41:11] <madduck__>	can you handle the masses?
[05:41:14] <madduck__>	ok.
[05:41:20] <helix>	thanks :)
[05:41:33] Join	dondelelcaro has joined this channel. (~don@archimedes.ucr.edu)
[05:41:35] <helix>	I'm sure we can handle them, but just in case... like if Rhonda and I need to use the bathroom at the same time!
[05:41:44] <madduck__>	dondelelcaro: they want you... :)
[05:41:47] Mode	madduck__ gives channel operator privileges to dondelelcaro.
[05:41:55] <helen>	hi dondelelcaro :)
[05:41:56] <dondelelcaro>	ok... I'll just play backup then, if that works
[05:42:07] <dondelelcaro>	helen: hola... ;-)
[05:42:12] <madduck__>	dondelelcaro: exactly.
[05:42:13] 	 * Rhonda looks at helix...
[05:42:14] <helix>	dondelelcaro: nooo, you're an equal member
[05:42:17] <helix>	Rhonda: ?
[05:42:29] <Rhonda>	I have been to the bathroom right before I joined, just in case. :)
[05:42:33] <helix>	ah
[05:43:02] <Rhonda>	Still a bit sleepy, tough. Opening my first can of Shark.
[05:43:06] <dondelelcaro>	heh
[05:43:09] <madduck__>	yuck!
[05:43:26] <Rhonda>	Noone can say I'm not prepared. :)
[05:43:47] <Rhonda>	It's just these three channels for me, right?
[05:43:53] <helen>	Rhonda: yes
[05:44:16] <Rhonda>	The one where the candidateanswers their question is for helen and madduck only?  Just in case, so I don't miss anything.
[05:44:30] <helen>	Rhonda: yes, that's right.  
[05:44:44] <helen>	we'll publish the log of it later, but just us and the candidates for the time being
[05:44:46] <Rhonda>	I've offered to log through my irssi, btw. Shall I log in here too, or rather not?
[05:45:12] <madduck__>	Rhonda: i am logging three times, but you can also log if you want. :)
[05:47:11] <Rhonda>	So, it's looking through -discuss and picking out sensible questions into here, right?
[05:47:23] <helen>	I am also logging.  I reckon we have enough logging to be safe...
[05:47:26] <Rhonda>	Not that I have the wrong impression of what shall be going on.
[05:47:40] <dondelelcaro>	also, if you guys want, you can use the pasterbot... if that helps
[05:47:45] 	 * dondelelcaro invites it just in case
[05:47:53] Join	paster has joined this channel. (~paster@rzlab.ucr.edu)
[05:48:00] <madduck__>	wtf is the pasterbot
[05:48:07] <dondelelcaro>	it's channels.debian.net/paste
[05:48:20] <madduck__>	ah, okay.
[05:48:31] <Rhonda>	madduck__: One can dump some questions on the webinterface, and paster will mention the URL in here.
[05:48:53] <madduck__>	probably not needed, but thanks anyway.
[05:49:04] <madduck__>	Rhonda: i can do the same from my shell way faster. :)
[05:49:21] <dondelelcaro>	heh... yeah... I think there's a shell interface for it, but I've never bothered
[05:49:26] <Rhonda>	I'm not meaning that _you_ should dump questions there. :)
[05:49:51] <Rhonda>	hmm....
[05:50:09] <madduck__>	what's jonathan's and angus' nicks?
[05:50:18] <dondelelcaro>	SirDibos and something
[05:50:38] <Rhonda>	Not here yet, then?
[05:51:09] 	 * Rhonda has moved the channel, now I can access them through convenient alt-2, -3 and -4  :)
[05:51:15] <dondelelcaro>	gus apparently
[05:51:25] <dondelelcaro>	gus [~user@46.33.233.220.exetel.com.au
[05:51:30] <madduck__>	i have four windows and am logged in four times. :
[05:53:00] <Rhonda>	Before it were just three times.  ;)
[05:53:54] <Rhonda>	Uhm, I guess JOINS PARTS is more to the point, helen.  :)
[05:54:15] <helen>	Rhonda: hmm was that wrong?  blame dondelelcaro ;)
[05:54:19] <Rhonda>	+QUITS
[05:54:43] <Rhonda>	No, it wasn't. I just hids only a part of the noise. :)
[05:54:48] <Rhonda>	hides, even.
[05:54:58] <helen>	madduck: did you get that Angus's nick is gus ?
[05:55:09] <madduck__>	yes
[05:55:10] <Rhonda>	So, we -discuss won't become moderated?
[05:55:38] <madduck__>	you want to pass out +v to everyone?
[05:55:52] <madduck__>	nah, i say let everyone speak and you warn/kick/ban when necessary
[05:56:30] <helen>	there are two main things we want you guys to do (I guess we already said this):
[05:56:36] <helen>	yeah, first is that
[05:56:53] <helen>	second is tell us here if people raise any half-decent  questions for the candidates
[05:57:12] <helen>	or anything else you think we need to know about the -discuss conversation
[05:57:23] <helen>	am I missing anything?
[05:57:27] <madduck__>	if possible, please prefix the questions with ****** or so to make them stand out.
[05:57:34] <madduck__>	helen: nah, that's pretty much it...
[05:57:58] <Rhonda>	I can make them 4stand out?  :)
[05:58:18] <madduck__>	:)
[05:59:11] <helen>	madduck__: are we going to wait a few minutes for Jonathan or what?
[05:59:46] <madduck__>	i don't think so.
[05:59:49] <dondelelcaro>	hrm... lilo just stuck out two wallops for the debate...
[05:59:53] <madduck__>	okay, maybe 3
[06:00:15] <helen>	3 minutes?
[06:00:17] <helen>	ok
[06:00:55] <madduck__>	helen announce it to -debate.
[06:03:42] <helen>	I am inclined to get started once the candidates are voiced
[06:03:52] <helen>	yes?
[06:03:53] <madduck__>	they are voiced.
[06:03:56] <madduck__>	go!
[06:03:59] <helen>	ok :)
[06:09:09] <helen>	ok, are we ok?
[06:10:04] <dondelelcaro>	sounds good
[06:10:20] <Rhonda>	07:09 <Zugschlus> helen: can you try pasting the questions as one long line? The line breaks introduced by the irc client and yours don't mix well
[06:10:26] <Rhonda>	helen: He has a point there. :)
[06:10:41] <helen>	Rhonda: ok, thanks for telling me
[06:12:49] <madduck__>	helen: told you so. :)
[06:12:52] <madduck__>	(email)
[06:13:00] <helen>	madduck:  can you echo my "Time" in -replies, when I call it.
[06:13:04] <helen>	in about 30 seconds
[06:13:14] <madduck__>	yes
[06:15:35] <helen>	madduck__: Andreas didn't see the question?  
[06:15:39] <helen>	wtf??
[06:17:03] <madduck__>	no clue...
[06:18:25] <helen>	well, what can we do?
[06:18:32] <helen>	his fault, I reckon.
[06:18:51] <Rhonda>	Andreas needed quite some time for his initial reply, too...
[06:19:28] <madduck__>	helen... can we move on?
[06:19:40] <dondelelcaro>	http://archimedes.ucr.edu/debian_dpl_debate has the current log, if that helps anything
[06:19:51] <helen>	madduck__: ok.  
[06:20:56] <Rhonda>	Who added the Deutsche Telekom part to the topic in -discuss? I guess we can remove it?
[06:21:03] <madduck__>	i did
[06:21:34] <dondelelcaro>	sorry, didn't realize there was topic lock ther
[06:22:29] <Rhonda>	****** 07:21 <Astinus> JonathanWalther:  Since you gave such a brief response, could you please elaborate on why you believe OpenBSD has the ultimate release cycle and how you believe you could apply this to Debian? What timescale are you considering for implementation, people can't be expected to just 'jump' and heypresto, surely?
[06:22:30] <paster>	"dondelelcaro" at 138.23.92.79 pasted "openbsd release cycle question (probably not that great of a question)" (3 lines) at http://channels.debian.net/paste/356
[06:22:43] <dondelelcaro>	heh
[06:22:48] <Rhonda>	Oh. :)
[06:23:27] <Rhonda>	What shall we say on -discuss about Andreas' lack of an answer?
[06:23:40] <madduck__>	we will allow him to submit one after the debate i guess.
[06:24:23] <helix>	fuck
[06:24:24] <helix>	dondelelcaro: :(
[06:24:41] <helix>	(we are having a bot attack in #debian where dondelelcaro and I are apparently the only active ops...)
[06:24:41] <dondelelcaro>	sorry, had to take care of a #debian bot attack
[06:25:47] <dondelelcaro>	nb, branden's response stopped at 'as DPL'
[06:26:15] <dondelelcaro>	(the limit is ~ 240 lines, if anyone is watching)
[06:26:24] <dondelelcaro>	s/240 lines/450 characters/
[06:26:37] <Rhonda>	07:25 <Adrinael> Branden's line was cut
[06:27:37] <helen>	Rhonda: thanks, we know, madduck is working on it...
[06:27:52] <helen>	that lot are so not getting that question
[06:27:57] 	 * helen sighs on behalf of Debian
[06:28:12] <dondelelcaro>	22:27:52 <fabbione> possible question to the candidate: "Are you willing to go trough the NM process again, as a complete anonymous, and be tested again?"
[06:28:26] <helen>	dondelelcaro: heh - that's quite a good one, actually.
[06:29:14] <helix>	yeah
[06:29:15] <madduck__>	it's a yes/no question
[06:29:24] <helix>	well, it could be reworked maybe :/
[06:31:22] <helen>	yes
[06:31:34] <helen>	it fits well into the first half of the debate, though I'm not sure we will have time for it
[06:31:43] <helen>	I have a feeling we will need to cut questions anyway
[06:31:44] <helen>	lets see...
[06:31:52] <helen>	might put it into the second half
[06:32:01] <madduck__>	i am busy right now...
[06:32:03] <madduck__>	your call.
[06:32:51] <helen>	we'll see how we go
[06:33:26] <madduck__>	okay, now the script works...
[06:34:48] <Rhonda>	Oh, slef coming in?
[06:34:57] <madduck__>	nope
[06:35:00] <helix>	eh
[06:35:13] <Rhonda>	Just noticed that gort oped him.
[06:35:26] Join	slef has joined this channel. (ENoPulsar@81-86-163-141.dsl.pipex.com)
[06:35:35] <madduck__>	slef: a little late, huh?
[06:35:46] <madduck__>	slef: please speak to Rhonda... he will tell you what to do...
[06:37:17] <Rhonda>	slef: Just see if there are interesting questions over there, and paste them here, propably prefixed with ****** so they can be seen by helen and madduck quickly.
[06:37:46] 	 * Rhonda forgives madduck the "he". :)
[06:38:38] <slef>	it's pig tail time (twirly!) and it took forever to copy up notes of yesterday's 300+mile trip
[06:39:53] <Rhonda>	slef: If the time was really a problem it would have been nice to note it earlier. Gladly dondelelcaro was there to jump in.
[06:42:03] <helen>	madduck__: shall we ask the candidates to paste directly to -debate instead?
[06:42:21] <madduck__>	mh, one after the other?
[06:42:25] <madduck__>	we can try...
[06:44:38] <madduck__>	helen: questions 5,6,7
[06:44:56] <helen>	ok
[06:46:17] <slef>	Rhonda: get off.
[06:46:44] <Rhonda>	Where to?
[06:47:35] <Rhonda>	slef: I think it would have just been polite, nothing else. Not like your reply now. Thanks.
[06:48:21] <helix>	err
[06:53:48] <helen>	thanks madduck__!  It wasn't truncated for me
[06:54:05] <madduck__>	i know, it's the damn server.
[06:54:19] <dondelelcaro>	yeah, the server truncates at ~450 characters
[06:54:29] <madduck__>	440
[06:54:42] <helen>	yeah, its because I was making it all one line
[06:55:02] <dondelelcaro>	yeah, it's really 460 some odd, but you have to subtract the MSG #debian-dpl-debate part... ;-)
[06:58:25] <helen>	are you guys managing alright with -discuss?
[06:58:47] <dondelelcaro>	yeah... nothing too terribly exciting going on there
[06:58:55] <helix>	they're just whining a lot
[06:59:07] <dondelelcaro>	hey, whinging is the national sport
[07:06:52] <Rhonda>	08:05 <dato> helen, martin_krafft_ : go moderators go
[07:06:53] <Rhonda>	08:06 <dato> good stuff after the first difficulties.
[07:07:04] <Rhonda>	Just in case you need that shoulder pat.  :)
[07:07:10] <slef>	<kylem> helen, martin_krafft_, you're doing a fine job, don't let nay-sayers get to you.
[07:07:30] <helen>	ok, madduck__ how about we skip the question about communication problems and leave the rest in the second half?  
[07:07:55] <helen>	madduck:  I am aware that we are short of time, and that you and I both have to leave not so long after 8 (8.40 for me)
[07:14:20] <helen>	madduck__: you go for it when you're ready.  Good luck :)
[07:17:24] <helen>	madduck__: I think this one is very much to the point:
[07:17:27] <helen>	[07:14:34] <peterS> Manoj: yes, exactly. I was wondering why none of the candidates answered the question about the benefits of a diverse developer population and wondered if anyone here could name any. not just sex diversity
[07:17:35] <slef>	do we need more questions for the open debate?
[07:17:45] <helen>	well, not really.  
[07:17:52] <helen>	but if there are very interesting ones let us know, please.
[07:18:10] <helen>	we have too many questions already, but we need to pick the best
[07:19:40] <slef>	ok, will just track for extension questions
[07:26:23] <slef>	***<gravity> If our BTS is the best in the world then why doesn't anyone else use it?
[07:27:00] <Rhonda>	***<dato> "JonathanWalther: how many BTS do you know?
[07:27:25] <Rhonda>	They address the same thing, I can see.
[07:28:11] <slef>	Rhonda: That was a quote of a question asked, isn't it?
[07:28:58] <Rhonda>	Yes.  It was meant as a question.
[07:30:29] <helen>	madduck__: it's not too complicated - it's not a patch on your average debian women IRc discussion.   Don't worry :)
[07:32:29] <slef>	should you discourage vague refs to -vote or platforms?
[07:33:25] <helen>	slef: I think people will reread the platforms later and see whether the reference make sense or not
[07:36:53] <Rhonda>	****** <womble> OK, here's a question for the candidates: Do you feel it is appropriate to delegate new people to a position within Debian without the support of the individuals already delegated, should that need arise?
[07:37:18] <slef>	womble++
[07:38:48] <slef>	can we reduce candidates be interrogating each other? JW's Q looks like "when will you stop beating your wife?"
[07:39:00] <helix>	yeah, agreed
[07:39:11] <helix>	(nevermind that he's accusing mjg59 of something he didn't even do)
[07:39:44] <madduck__>	the community will tell.
[07:40:56] <helix>	***** (womble) Can I get a retraction on that comment by krooger?  I don't have admin powers over any list
[07:42:50] <slef>	<bab> martin_krafft_: request: can you please restrict your role to steering the debate, and not rebutting specific developers? IMHO person-specific rebuttals should be left to the other candidates and not the moderator (who has a uniquely elevated voice)
[07:43:08] <madduck__>	???
[07:43:18] <Rhonda>	This is getting more and more like a mud-wrestling....
[07:47:18] <helen>	slef: the idea was to see how they interact.  Now we are seeing...
[07:47:35] <helen>	it's a bit hard to control them, predictably
[07:48:00] <madduck__>	oh jonathan
[07:48:02] <helix>	heh
[07:48:06] <Rhonda>	At least you aren't Jerry Springer and pushing it.  All hail helix and madduck....
[07:48:14] <Rhonda>	Uhm, helen ...
[07:48:27] <Rhonda>	Why can't you be unique in your nicks earlier  8-
[07:48:29] <Rhonda>	)
[07:49:54] <helix>	*** (vorlon) helix: "what do you believe should be the minimum level of involvement for Debian developers?"
[07:50:08] <helix>	he says it got lost in the -discuss scrollback or something
[07:51:08] <Rhonda>	***** <hacim> Question for candidates: In what way do you think Debian can honor the labor contributions of non-DDs who do significant work for the project (e.g. translators)?
[07:51:14] <helen>	helix: no, he emailed it to me and we dropped it from the list of candidate questions.  I'll remember later on why that was.
[07:51:23] <helix>	oh ok
[07:51:26] <helen>	helix: we had a *lot* of questions submitted.
[07:51:32] <helix>	yeah, I believe it
[07:51:44] <Rhonda>	I think that question is a good one...
[07:52:15] <helen>	madduck__: you going to throw in Q8 or Q9 from the old plan for part 1?  
[07:52:29] <madduck__>	yeah
[07:52:53] <slef>	migus asks something like "What would be the biggest improvements you would try to lead?"
[07:53:14] <madduck__>	ugh
[07:55:22] <slef>	now JW is interrogating the moderator?!?
[07:58:01] 	 * dondelelcaro refrains from commenting on "23:57:11 <+JonathanWalther> BrandenRobinson: I don't know any debian developers who can't at least program their way out of a paper bag."
[08:01:56] <slef>	should that be s/can/should/ ?
[08:02:30] <slef>	seems they all took it that way any road, nm
[08:02:34] <madduck__>	jonathan. :)
[08:03:41] <Rhonda>	***** 09:02 <vorlon> martin_krafft_: *should* expect from DDs, not *can* expect from DDs
[08:04:21] <helix>	erk, almost lost my connection
[08:04:26] <helix>	hmm, if I drop out, blame my ISP
[08:05:00] <slef>	helix: not the backhoe of the telco?
[08:05:25] <madduck__>	man your humour sucks
[08:05:40] <helix>	I don't catch the reference
[08:06:21] <Rhonda>	Just in case, we're in overtime.
[08:06:25] <madduck__>	i know.
[08:06:34] <Rhonda>	I don't want you to miss what ever you need to catch. :)
[08:07:30] <dondelelcaro>	madduck__: suggest that candidates can continue talking in -discuss if they wish?
[08:07:46] <slef>	<gravity> Thanks moderators!
[08:09:14] <slef>	helix: I've had a telco put a backhoe through my internet connection at a really inappropriate time in the past. No matter.
[08:09:21] <helix>	heh
[08:09:24] <helix>	wow
[08:09:48] <slef>	back when I worked somewhere with a dedicated line
[08:09:56] <helix>	oh, even better!
[08:10:33] <madduck__>	can we close this channel?
[08:10:42] <slef>	of course, having a dedicated line meant they could afford no backup link :-/ I'll stop now
[08:10:55] <slef>	dunno, are we staying on to watch -discuss?
[08:11:00] <madduck__>	not me.
[08:11:04] <dondelelcaro>	I'll stick around for an hour in -discuss
[08:11:04] <madduck__>	i have to catch a plane
[08:11:07] <helix>	hmm, I may
[08:11:09] <madduck__>	thanks.
[08:11:11] <helix>	yeah, an hour-ish sounds good
[08:11:12] <helen>	madduck__: I think we can close this now.
[08:11:16] <slef>	is it useful to keep the back-channel open?
[08:11:23] <helen>	slef: we don't need to moderate -discuss any more, now that the debate is over.  
[08:11:33] <dondelelcaro>	madduck__: before you go, could you untopiclock discuss?
[08:11:46] <dondelelcaro>	or stick the transcript link on -discuss?
[08:11:54] <madduck__>	i will.
[08:12:02] <dondelelcaro>	madduck__: thanks!
[08:12:04] <madduck__>	you cannot change the topic?
[08:12:24] <dondelelcaro>	madduck__: I can, but chanserv changes it right back
[08:12:31] <madduck__>	damn.
[08:12:42] <dondelelcaro>	it's topiclock or somesuch setting
[08:12:43] <helix>	chanserv is such a hater
[08:12:45] <madduck__>	Rhonda: do you have all four channels logged online already?
[08:12:51] <slef>	madduck__: chanserv--?
[08:13:27] <helix>	mod it down! way down!
[08:13:28] <Rhonda>	madduck__: I have been only in three out of access permissions, but I can put those up if you like?
[08:13:36] <madduck__>	dondelelcaro: done.
[08:13:39] <madduck__>	try again.
[08:13:47] <madduck__>	i'll put mine up then. no worries.
[08:14:49] <dondelelcaro>	cool, it works
[08:16:06] <Rhonda>	madduck__: http://alfie.ist.org/debian/dpl-2005/
[08:17:43] <madduck__>	Rhonda: keep logging discuss, okay?
[08:17:47] <Rhonda>	Oh.
[08:17:55] <madduck__>	nevermind if you did not. np.
[08:18:11] <helix>	madduck__: I don't think -discuss should be made publi
[08:18:22] <helix>	I don't recall anyone saying it would be logged in the first place
[08:18:26] <Rhonda>	Restarted.....
[08:18:55] 	 * dondelelcaro has it all in scrollback, but wasn't going to bother
[08:19:04] <madduck__>	helix: it was announced.
[08:19:08] <madduck__>	why not?
[08:19:17] <helix>	was it? hmm, I guess I don't remember that
[08:19:27] <helix>	because of the snarky comments; I don't even see what's worthwhile about it
[08:20:30] <madduck__>	ok convinced
[08:21:53] <Rhonda>	Ah, of course!
[08:22:01] <Rhonda>	Silly me, /lastlog -file!
[08:22:04] 	 * Rhonda kicks herself.
[08:22:33] <dondelelcaro>	Rhonda: heh. yeah... that and /rawlog are rather useful command that you often don't hear much about
[08:23:04] <madduck__>	bye all
[08:23:08] 	 * Rhonda waves.
[08:23:12] <madduck__>	i gotta catch a flight.
[08:23:12] Quit	madduck__ has left this server. ("leaving")
[08:23:21] <dondelelcaro>	madduck: have a safe flight
[08:24:44] <madduck>	thanks
[08:25:07] Topic	madduck sets the channel topic to "The debate is over. Go home.".
[08:25:27] <dondelelcaro>	heh
[08:25:33] 	 * Rhonda wonders if I should tell that to my boss.  "I've been told to go home."
[08:25:45] 	 * dondelelcaro is actually still in his lab at 00:25:25 localtime
[08:27:01] Mode	madduck takes channel operator privileges from dondelelcaro.
[08:27:04] Mode	madduck takes channel operator privileges from you.
[08:27:05] Mode	madduck takes channel operator privileges from helix.
[08:27:07] Mode	madduck takes channel operator privileges from Rhonda.
[08:27:10] Mode	madduck takes channel operator privileges from madduck.
[08:28:06] <madduck>	please deop yourself on -discuss per freenode policies...
[08:28:19] <Rhonda>	dondelelcaro: Workday just started, it's 09:27 over here.
[08:30:00] 	 * slef hunts freenode policies
[08:30:49] 	 * Rhonda didn't know that there is a policy how you have to run your channel, neither. :)
[08:32:39] <slef>	can't see anything in policies
[08:33:15] <Rhonda>	Ah, it's in the guidelines. :)
[08:33:15] <helix>	slef: aiui, the policy is to only op yourself when necessary (for banning or moderating reasons)
[08:33:44] <dondelelcaro>	it's just guidelines... about the only thing that stays +o are bots
[08:33:55] <helix>	and people in #gentoo, iirc
[08:33:57] <Rhonda>	helix: That's guidelines. :)
[08:34:15] <helix>	ok
[08:34:17] 	 * helix shrugs
[08:34:21] <slef>	ah right... that's a bit backwards, IMO, but it's not my network
[08:34:29] <Rhonda>	dondelelcaro: And not even the bots need the +o...  They can use the services as everything else. :)
[08:34:49] <dondelelcaro>	Rhonda: yeah, but some of them have to respond when the services go down
[08:34:55] <Rhonda>	But yes, I see no reason to _not_ follow that specific guideline.
[08:35:14] <helix>	mmm, bot attacks when services go down
[08:35:17] <helix>	those are fun
[08:35:19] <Rhonda>	I fully agree with that it just has a bad impact on the discussion temper.
[08:35:24] <dondelelcaro>	Rhonda: FE, in #debian, debhelper usually needs to deal with flooders faster than chanserv can +o it
[08:35:59] <Rhonda>	I see...
[08:36:15] <Rhonda>	Alright, there are always exceptions. :)
[08:36:29] <helix>	dondelelcaro: one time someone attacked us as a proof-of-concept against not having people permanently opped
[08:36:32] <dondelelcaro>	but that's purely automated... I don't think that bot has actually said anything in channel ever
[08:36:35] <helix>	that was interesting
[08:36:48] <helix>	I think their client pasted slowly enough that it didn't cause debhelper to respond
[08:36:55] <helix>	and we were helpless until services came back
[08:37:01] <dondelelcaro>	helix: ah...
[08:37:10] <dondelelcaro>	helix: yeah, in that case, assuming I'm alive, I'll +o people through debhelper
[08:37:14] <slef>	some people, if they see no ops, they take it as an invitation to mess around
[08:37:35] 	 * dondelelcaro usually does that when he sees it happening
[08:37:35] <helix>	dondelelcaro: ah, didn't know you could do that
[08:37:50] <Rhonda>	slef: Such people are usually quite esily detectable and led to the door.
[08:38:21] <dondelelcaro>	not really a big deal... with autobleh, you can +o, boot the offender, and -o in one easy to type command